it. >> alisyn: thanks, mike. >> clayton: fox and friends for the after the show show. >> unemployment rate falling, but job creation still falling. one in five employers saying the outcome of the presidential election will impact their hiring plans for next year. and someone here says, this is why. >> you know the phrase you always use, obama and biden want to raise taxes by a trillion dollars, guess what? yes, we do in one regard. we want to let that trillion dollar tax cut expire so the middle class doesn't have to bear the burden of all of that

money going to the super wealthy. >> so, are promises of massive tax hikes, taxing the jobs market? hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, here they are, bulls and bears this week, gary b smith, tobin smith, jonas max ferris, along with julian epstein and larry, talk about future tax hikes, holding back a jobs recovery? >> that's right, that's right, brenda. well, you know, certainly for consumers that are work being that have 401(k) plans they may be feeling more confident these days, but their employers don't share the optimism. they're worried what's ahead and what's ahead are future tax increases, for small business owners still, these are people that own delis and dry cleaners and pave your driveways, not fat cats and million fairs and billionaires, they're average work people and concerned about the environment. and national independent business owners a record number of people.

a bad time to start a business and a bad time to hire people. and that's not going to inspire jobs in this country, which is exactly what we need right now. >> okay, clearly larry is not excited about this. julian, what do you say? which tax plan? >> i don't know why larry is screaming at everybody. i mean, look, the numbers here yesterday and the job numbers are very, very good, falling to below 8%, a good sign and vindication that the economic recovery is working, secondly, i think the fact that many businesses want to hold their fire until after the election is reasonable, because what businesses say more than anything else, two things they want to see is one, the partisan infighting stop and they want to see the parties come together to see what's done for the american people and two things that people are worried about aren't taxes, it's the lack of people buying something. >> most people believe, most political experts believe obama is going to win with this and with a decisive mandate and the way the

electoral college, that they have to work with obama rather than be obstructionist and on taxes, nobody wants to see anyone's taxes go up. but at the end of the day, when it comes time to cutting the debt. if you don't touch bush tax cuts for 1%, then you have the middle class, a bad, bad, economic. >> after the debate polls are tightening, but jonas, which plan, which candidate if he wins will basically bring a jobs recovery back? >> well, it really is the romney plan, and focus on the taxes issues. >> and the left sort of missed the idea that if you drop the marginal rate, the point down to 20% essentially what romney is talking about, then people who make income, actually, their taxes go down in only one way, if they make more income, and that's the incentivizization to make more income because you're not giving back 35% to the government.

when we lower marginal tax rates, we get more from the people output in the society. >> jonas, you believe we need tax increases in the long run, in the short run, what is going to get jobs. >> and there's nothing you can do to the tax code that isn't going to hurt the job market. >> lower the marginal rates. >> you say romney wants to lower the raets and remove the deduction, let's say he removes the mortgage deduction, home builder, you're going to hire more people, and if they remove it, hire more people, probably not. you're going to bring net knew revenue to the government. not going cut enough you're going to hurt the job market. now, specifically, if you hit the high end, like they want to do, let's say they did that, and yeah, that's, that's tax, when you tax people in the middle that is cost of hiring somebody so could actually need to less hiring, a worker taxes goes up and pay

them more to counter at that tax cost and your success level. and going to cut at your profit, it's not a cost of hiring. so it could in theory do more damage to make the tax burden shift on to the employee, the job taker level not the job creator level. however, i don't want to say that every tax increase hurts the job market on every level. >> and gary b, vice-president biden made it clear there's a trillion dollar tax hike. what does it do to job creation, to the job recovery, if you can call it that? >> brenda, i'll try to be as specific as possible. >> it's going to be harmful to job creation, look a lot of the tax increase will go to the super rich or super wealthy, as vice-president biden, but what those people really are, as larry pointed out, right at the top of the segment is entrepreneurs, and ones who are the most successful entrepreneurs are about that 3% of that total entrepreneur bracket and the reason they're successful, brenda, look, they want to

generally make a lot of money. they want to grow their business, they want to prosper and have big homes, i'm fine with all that. that's fantastic, but if you if you put higher taxes on that, scratching my head and thinking, are those people going to have a bigger incentive to grow the business or smaller? if i know the government let's go whacky, 70% of my, of my income, i'm going to be sitting on the sidelines, saying, now what? i'm not sure i want to grow my business anymore, because it's not worth it, and i'm going to pay 7 cents on the dollar to the government. >> and julian. >> if that's 3% that garrisi talking about, they probably employ between 10 to 12% of all u.s. workers and talking about a relatively small part of the work force, that's point one. point two, taxes right now under the obama administration are at 15% of grosse pointe woods. that's the lowest they've been in 60 years, so if everyone on the show believes that the answer to all of our economic problems is lowering the taxes, then you should vote

for obama, because he's given us the lowest taxes that they've been in-- >> julian. >> let me point out that-- >> and do not want to change that overall tax. romney wants to keep it at-- >> julian, i think you missed the point here and the point is look, it's not just the existing, it's new business formation is at a record low according to the census bureau, if you look, small business accounts for roughly 50% of gdp and the numbers are much greater than you're giving credit for. i think the tax issue. >> the small businesses that are affected-- >> okay. >> the small businesses affected by that 1%-- that increase on that very top level, above 250 level represent about 10 to 12% of workers. >> okay, wait a minute, tobin, you disagree with that number? >> well, the actual number is, the top 3% of employment, let's say 15% above julian's number, that's not the point. the point is that, at looking

to add jobs, we're looking to grow businesses, and looking to do and substitute when your marginal rate goes up. i'm sorry, when your marginal rate goes up, you get rid of 10 people or 500 people to make a difference and that's what we know happens and it's happened every time. >> i'm sorry, guys, that has to be the last word. >> excellent. >> you've got it, toby, all right. and what president obama and governor romney did agree on, at the first presidential debate. >> quite extraordinary. >> successful. >> wonderful, good programs, creator, there's no doubt about it. >> and it's terrific, genius, commitment. >> done a great job. >> of course they were talking about who else, neil cavuto, at fox business, star-studded debate coverage. and the vice-presidential debate 4 p.m. ap 8 p.m. on fox business and off to the final

two presidential debates. the election is not red or blue, it's about your green and no one is on it, but neil. and one word not uttered at the debate someone on the cavuto on business gang should have all taxpayers worrying at the bottom of the hour and up next, the d.c. solutions for i've been a superintendent for 30 some years at many different park service units across the united states. the only time i've ever had a break is when i was on maternity leave. i have retired from doing this one thing that i loved. now, i'm going to be able to have the time to explore something different. it's like another chapter.

more headlines 30 minutes away. and now back to bulls and bears only on fox. >> here is a history breaking

number that's breaking our pocket books. gas prices are on track to close at a record high for the year and consumers are getting squeezed. the white house saying tapping our emergency oil reserve is on the table. but some lawmakers urging the president to shelf that idea and tobin, you agree with him, why? >> yes, i turned into tobin, i like that. and first off, the problem is not the oil issue, the problem is refinery problems, not only disasters at refineries, the switchover that happens between september and october and it's not done yet. so our problem with gasoline prices, is gasoline refining, nothing to do with oil, number one. and we need that for when times get rough and listen, we have iran and israel still in a sort of of shouting match. it's not for gasoline prices. >> gary b. we've released the oil recertifies of only three times in history and each time oil prices come down a little

bit. and then come back up, a temporary thing. >> exactly. because when we've released them we've changed the supply and demand equation which ultimately gas prices rely upon, but we haven't released enough and we haven't released it for long enough, i suppose, are the same thing. i'm with toby though, i don't think that we should release. i think it's purely a political move. the best way to attack the supply and demand equation, in governor romney said, start to go drill on private land. there are so many resources we could be energy independent without going for wind and solar and rubbing two sticks together. let's release the boundless energy we have out there in places like anwar and off shore, and then we could see gas prices seriously drop. >> julian, what do you think that releasing these reserves will do to gas prices? >> i think that everybody agrees the answer is ultimately energy independence

and note under the obama, production at the highest level in 20 years, as for, i don't know what somebody's laughing about. if you want to-- >> i'm laughing because it came on private land, but not public land, okay. >> but we can have that debate it's not really that meaningful to the point you're making. >> let's get on. >> i think the issue is here, that the strategic petroleum reserve is for when we have very unusual circumstances, when bush did it in '91 during the iraq invasion, when clinton did it in 2000, it happened, for a specific situation in 2004. when george w. bush did in 2005, because of katrina. when obama did it, a year ago, it was because of libya. and in each case, price the went down significantly. i don't think the obama administration will do it now because it will look too political and might actually be political if they were to do it, but i would note that gas prices are starting to

come down from where they had been and romney, who is blaming obama for the increase in gas prices is not giving obama any credit for the gas prices actually going down. >> all right. jonas? >> i think that the government could make money trading this thing, and in charge of the spr. and sell at $100 a barrel and announce you're going to drill in the public lands and-- i'm saying that's not the job of government and moreover a political thing wouldn't become a thing it make money, it'd be to drive prices down before the election. and for the iran situation, that's probably what it's for an old-fashioned concept we don't use it because people don't like $4 gas, gas is going to get more expensive every year because there's less of it. get use today that. >> and larry, do you think it's a good idea. no, releasing the strategic petroleum reserve is no way to solve our nation's long-term energy problems. that's what we need to do. in addition to what toby says about infrastructure. california prices are up 20 to 30 cents in a day and this is

no national supply destruction. because we haven't built a refinery since the mid 70's and because of energy infrastructure is lacking. we don't have the pipelines to transport the energy and one more point, it's also not just the fear premium. we have the purchasing price of the dollar. it's no coincidence the fact that oil prices, gasoline is up 100% since inauguration day and the debt is up more than 50% and gold is soaring through the roof there's no coincidence, the dollar, it's a factor in the equation and should be addressed. >> thank you. gas prices aren't the only thing addressing our economy right now the fiscal cliff, train wreck of automatic tax hikes and spending, and that's why neil will be live from the nation's capital next week, hosting a special cost of freedom. freedom. 10 a.m. to noon eastern. the capital one cash rewards card

gives you a 50% annual bonus. and everyone, but her... likes 50% more cash. but, i have an idea. do you want a princess dress? yes how about some cupcakes? yes lollipop? yes! do you want an etch a sketch? yes!

do you want 50% more cash? no you got talent. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card. with a 50% annual cash bonus it's the card for people who like more cash. what's in your wallet? i usually say that.

>> calling for help may cost you. one town in pennsylvania asking for a special tax for an emergency ambulance service. and some in california are suing for extra control for wildfires. gary b, you say it's getting out of control? >> absolutely, most of these

cities are cash strapped. they're financially mismanaged and it's an opportunity for them to put one more hand in the taxpayers' pockets. look, the root of this is not that they ned more money, they need to spend what they have more efficiently and overburdened with pensions they can't pay and they have too many government employees on the payroll and they're badly run, and asking a taxpayer to fund government inefficiency is the wrong way to go. >> brenda: well, jonas, we're already paying taxes, isn't that supposed to be covering what we get for this? >> well, those income taxes are artificially low. a lot of states like california are putting through a lot of tax increases. and we talked about the president, but california has a proposition to super tax million dollar earners, you need regress seive taxes to go along with that, and charging fees for all the things the states are paying for, roads, bridges, i'm all for it because you can't just squeeze

the same group for higher income taxes, and called broaden the base. >> brenda: you like that idea. >> i late this idea. another example why businesses are leaving california. up to 25% leaving the state and california ranks dead last for eight years in business competitiveness and third highest unemployment rate. none of these things are going to help the citizens of california and i'm amazed what they put up with so far. >> brenda: all right, julian, do you think, you better have your credit card out if they're going to be paying for this, huh? >> i think it's a bad idea. now, in 1983 during the recession, president raing be increased state to state local government and 2003 during the recession, republican president george w. bush increased state aid to state and local government. this is the first time that conservatives in the republicans and congress have actually chosen to starve state and local governments during a recession and leading them to do for stupid things like ask for the tacks and encourages socially irresponsible behavior like not calling the fire department. >> brenda: toby, shouldn't they just get their spending

under control instead of adding new tax sns. >> i don't think we're in a recession, right now, fyi. and if you actually put some actual fees and spend on this, now, 25% of the phone calls in the 411, are not right. i mean they're a wrong call. 911, i'm sorry. ambulance the same deal, half of them are fake calls and i think that actually helps get the costs down because it has people think, i would have to pay for a visit. >> okay. jonas, last word. >> you know, the 800 number for the police-- 900 number. >> and the states are cutting back and you can't say that the states haven't cut stuff out of the budget and that federal government hasn't given money to states. but they've cut a lot of things and they have to have income taxes and everybody's got to pay and can't just be at the million dollar bracket, charge for the services that we're using and can't cut the services and they're expensive. what can i tell you. >> brenda: thanks for the

expert on the 900 numbers, toby, i love that. thanks, guys, and thanks to julian for joining us as always. >> thanks to us, and thanks to toby for making the point about the obama recovery. >> brenda: and how south korea's biggest export is about to make awe 25% profit. about to make awe 25% profit. profiting energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed

to safely and responsibly providing generations of cleaner-burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self-contained well systems. and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment. we're america's natural gas. boring. boring. [ jack ] after lauren broke up with me, i went to the citi private pass page and decided to be...not boring. that's how i met marilyn... giada... really good. yes! [ jack ] ...and alicia. ♪ this girl is on fire [ male announcer ] use any citi card to get the benefits of private pass. more concerts, more events, more experiences. [ jack ] hey, who's boring now? [ male announcer ] get more access with the citi card. [ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ]

>> predictions.

>> and says if your candidate loses you can leave the country on them on a price discount deal. i like it, up about 20%. >> brenda: larry, bull or bear? >> i'm a bear. my kid loves the tv's on the seats, but-- >> what's your prediction. >> iye. no matter who wins domestic energy is the way to go, natural gas will lead the way. >> brenda: gary bull or bear. >> i'm bear, i like the future just not this stock for the future. >> brenda: what do you like? >> i like netflix, it's been so hated. >> brenda: what? >> and you know what, video streaming never went away, net flicks up 50% and making a move in the next 12 months. >> brenda: jonas bull or bear. >> bear. >> brenda: jonas what do you like, your prediction. >> south koreans are not just dominating the electronics, but they're taken over the justin bieber traffic on the internet and by gangnam style, why the south korea etf up 25% in a year.